Data plan - how caries know u have a smart phone

This is a discussion on Data plan - how caries know u have a smart phone within the Bell Canada forums, part of the Android Phone Carriers category; Originally Posted by cincon The way I think it works Unlimited Browsing Plan - uses the cell voice network, much like a computer uses a ...

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Thread: Data plan - how caries know u have a smart phone

  1. #11
    Senior Member jonno2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cincon View Post
    The way I think it works

    Unlimited Browsing Plan - uses the cell voice network, much like a computer uses a modem over a voice phone line. Its very slow and your phone needs a modem built-in. When data was first brought to cell phones this is how they did it.

    Data plans - use a dedicated band (i.e 3G) to send data with no modem needed (for voice modulation). Much like high speed internet over your phone line (ADLS), you need a modem but it's not translating data to voice. Its pure data being sent. Very fast

    This is why unlimited browsing plans don't work on smartphones. Smartphones use the 3G data network to get their data
    No - it's all digital now. Jakkzen is right - data is data. The different wording and plans are ways to get more money from high bandwidth users, which they consider all smart phone users to be.

  2. #12
    Android Lurker Cincon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonno2k View Post

    No - it's all digital now. Jakkzen is right - data is data.
    Yes, data is data but the unlimited browsing plan uses the cell voice network to sent that data. Which is converted to voice, then transmitted, then converted back to data. Thats why its $10 and why is unlimited because it so slow.

    Smartphones now don't have the modem built-in they use the 3G network for data.
    This is how I think it works anyway.

    I had the unlimited browsing plan, but my nexus one was not using the cell voice network to get the data, it was using the 3G network and I was being charged at the $0.05 per 100K or what ever the price is. I had to tell them to drop the unlimited browsing and stop charging for 3G access.

  3. #13
    Senior Member jonno2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cincon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jonno2k View Post

    No - it's all digital now. Jakkzen is right - data is data.
    Yes, data is data but the unlimited browsing plan uses the cell voice network to sent that data. Which is converted to voice, then transmitted, then converted back to data.
    No, it's all digital now. Voice is converted to data, not the other way around.

  4. #14
    Android Lurker Cincon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonno2k View Post
    No, it's all digital now. Voice is converted to data, not the other way around.
    Yes, but voice is not using the 3G network to transmit that data, it using the another band. The older phones (i.e not the smartphones) are using this band to get data.

    Eventually all phones will use the pure data and the unlimited browsing plan will be no more, and all phones will use 3G/4G...

  5. #15
    Senior Member jonno2k's Avatar
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    Not so. (2G) GPRS, EDGE, and 3G are all basically the same technology. 3G includes voice data. How do you think people with an AT&T/Rogers N1 can go on Bell when Bell doesn't support GSM? Everything is done over 3G - voice and data.

  6. #16
    Android Lurker Cincon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonno2k View Post
    Not so. (2G) GPRS, EDGE, and 3G are all basically the same technology. 3G includes voice data.
    If 3G includes voice data, why don't I see the 3G symbol with the up/down arrows telling me data is being sent and received when I make a cell call?

    If you use an App like Skype, this will use the 3G data network as pure data, and transmit this data over the Internet.

  7. #17
    Senior Member jonno2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cincon View Post
    If 3G includes voice data, why don't I see the 3G symbol with the up/down arrows telling me data is being sent and received when I make a cell call?
    That I don't know... my guess is that they only show the symbol when using data but not otherwise. Obviously the phone and network know which channels you're using and can display whatever icons they want.

    Having said that, I did just read that it's possible to split voice and data between 2G and 3G networks like you said. That's not to say that 3G isn't capable of both voice and data - it depends on how the carrier decides to operate. Does Rogers split? I have no idea.

    However, back to my previous post: you can use the Rogers/AT&T Nexus One on Belus in 3G only (has to be because they don't use GSM) so that's proof enough that voice and data are carried together on their 3G network.

    As a test I forced my N1 into WCDMA-Only mode and did not get the 3G icon. In theory this should disable 2G and use 3G only. So I'm back to my original assumption (could be wrong) that "3G" only gets displayed when actual data (internet, MMS) traffic is taking place... dunno.

  8. #18
    Android Lurker Cincon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonno2k View Post

    That I don't know... my guess is that they only show the symbol when using data but not otherwise. Obviously the phone and network know which channels you're using and can display whatever icons they want.

    Having said that, I did just read that it's possible to split voice and data between 2G and 3G networks like you said. That's not to say that 3G isn't capable of both voice and data - it depends on how the carrier decides to operate. Does Rogers split? I have no idea.

    However, back to my previous post: you can use the Rogers/AT&T Nexus One on Belus in 3G only (has to be because they don't use GSM) so that's proof enough that voice and data are carried together on their 3G network.

    As a test I forced my N1 into WCDMA-Only mode and did not get the 3G icon. In theory this should disable 2G and use 3G only. So I'm back to my original assumption (could be wrong) that "3G" only gets displayed when actual data (internet, MMS) traffic is taking place... dunno.
    Yes, its very confusing. Back to the unlimited browser plan $10 a month from Rogers, this is why I think certain phones use the cell network not the 3G data network to get the data. In other words the data for the unlimited browsing plan takes the same path as a voice cell call (i.e voice get converted to digital, compressed, sent to tower, control box routs call through voice network, uncompress, digital back to voice to phone). My guess anyway.

    I have not tried setting my N1 to WCDMA-only mode. If you had the unlimited browsing plan could you browse the Internet in this mode?

  9. #19
    Member giodelgado's Avatar
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    When I got my Nexus One TMo version I used EDGE only, I have owned previous Nokia Symbian S60v3 phones (which are smartphones), AT&T has the E71x with a $30 smartphone data plan and I used to have the E71 unlocked version, I used almost 1 Gig or more on it and they never changed my data plan (paid $10 on family unlimited data plan) but when I had the Nexus Tmo version they changed my data plan to $30/mo I thought it was because of the Edge network.

    Now a week ago I got the N1 AT&T version and they changed my data from 10 to 30/mo again which sucks, was fun paying $10/mo with all my Unlocked Nokias...

    What I think is happening here is that they got notified or bought the list of IMEI's by HTC or they hold "certain" databases of IMEI's but not every single smartphone existent database.
    I switched from Symbian to Android on January 6 2010...

    ...then I sold my N1 to get the AT&T version but I'll wait for a qwerty solution from google or better with AT&T band support and got the Nokia E75...

    lol

  10. #20
    Android Lurker Cincon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giodelgado View Post
    What I think is happening here is that they got notified or bought the list of IMEI's by HTC or they hold "certain" databases of IMEI's but not every single smartphone existent database.
    Could be, but I think is more like a computer connecting to the Internet. Your ISP does not care what type of computer you have (i.e. Mac, PC running windows, PC running Linux..). What they do know about is how you connect to their servers (Dial-up, cable, DSL, Satellite....) and they charge you accordingly. I think it's similar with smart-phones, when you connect to the network they know right away and how your connecting. The only difference will cell providers as compared to ISP's is they let you connect as long as you have and active Sim and charge later. Just my take on it

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