My THoughts

This is a discussion on My THoughts within the Motorola Backflip forums, part of the Motorola Android Phones category; Why do everyone have so much anger and so negative towards this phone, I dont understand. Everytime a new phone comes out people look for ...

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Thread: My THoughts

  1. #1
    Member dchandler's Avatar
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    My THoughts

    Why do everyone have so much anger and so negative towards this phone, I dont understand. Everytime a new phone comes out people look for the bad instead of the good in them, No phone is going to have everything in it and be perfect. Im just tired of hearing people talk to bad about it and not know what they are talking about. They talk bad about the Iphone, Blackberry, Droid,Eris,Nexus One , Its just crazy.:mad:

    Sorry if i bothered anyone, I just needed to vent. I love my phone no matter what people say

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  3. #2
    Senior Member batmania15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dchandler View Post
    Why do everyone have so much anger and so negative towards this phone, I dont understand. Everytime a new phone comes out people look for the bad instead of the good in them, No phone is going to have everything in it and be perfect. Im just tired of hearing people talk to bad about it and not know what they are talking about. They talk bad about the Iphone, Blackberry, Droid,Eris,Nexus One , Its just crazy.:mad:

    Sorry if i bothered anyone, I just needed to vent. I love my phone no matter what people say
    dchandler, I completely agree with you on this one. It's a great phone. People are all up in arms because they say AT&T "locked" the phone. That it has yahoo search bar widget and not google. Well people open your browser and make google your home page then you can access it just as easy.

    People just love to complain.

  4. #3
    Member gwalborn's Avatar
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    Well, to be honest, there are things I LOVE about this phone, but there are things that worry me. I got the phone on its initial release date and have enjoyed learning about my new phone, but I am seriously considering returning the phone, dropping AT&T, and going with Verizon's Droid.

    First, what I like:

    1) The form factor of the phone. Despite all the naysayers, I actually LIKE the keyboard arrangement for this phone. It has a nice, solid feel and the keyboard lighting is gorgeous.

    2) The fact that the camera faces the user when the keyboard is opened. This is ideal for video conferencing.

    3) The keyboard has a great feel and is MUCH easier to use than the Droid keyboard (I have tried both).

    Things that have me concerned:

    1) It seems that the phone cannot play videos much larger than the screen size. I would like to see support for playing at least 640x480. 720x480 would be even better.

    2) Video capture is limited to 320x240. This is very low for such a nice device. The Droid captures at full DVD resolution (720x480). I'm not sure if this is enough for me to drop the phone or not.

    3) AT&T's decision to prohibit installation of untrusted sources. Yes, I know there is a work around (I am an Android developer). I have used the SDK to install such apps. I'm wondering how long it will be before AT&T tries to close that loophole.

    Part of me figures that the reason that we only got Android 1.5 on this phone is that AT&T is not done mucking up 2.1! I have been an AT&T customer for 4 years. I am seriously considering a move to another carrier. I have about 3 weeks left to make that decision (30 day return policy).

    gwalborn

  5. #4
    Junior Member JayMonster's Avatar
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    Well, being one of those "negative people" let me explain "why"

    Start with the hardware (which is not caused by at&t)

    IN my opinion only, the "backflip" design is stupid. It is one of those things that works better on paper than in practice. Can't wait to see all the complaints about items (lint, crumbs, whatever) jamming keys and people wondering "why"

    OK, so the keyboard is (presumably) recesses slightly so that you don't accidently hit keys when it is in your pocket, or "standing" in what looks like the Droid "Dock Mode" (sans the dock of course), that "lip" that they need to put around there to make that happen is going to annoy (at least some) people.

    Add to that the odd shape and layout for the keys, you have something that eventually you could get used to... but is there anything on this phone that is worth learning to adjust for?

    The back swiping touch area is a gimmick at this point, being a solution in search of a problem. It may have potential somewhere on the right device, but here is it is just something to give it a differentiation factor without really bringing any value proposition to the table.

    As if that isn't enough, THEN we go to the at&t buggering of this phone.

    yes you can change your "Homepage", but you can't change the default search box (according to reports). That hampers not only your search of the Net, but the search of data (contacts, docs, etc) ON THE PHONE.

    Locking out anything that isn't in the Market? Why? So they can ensure nobody can possibly root this phone and actually possibly make it useful? Or remove their crapware?

    The simple fact is, there are a lot of good phones out there these days and there is no reason anybody should get stuck with a lemon like this... so yes, it is compared to other items out there, and flaws are shown for what they are... even the iPhone has taken hits right from the get go about tethering, and MMS (finally fixed), and other issues.

    This isn't the dark ages, and you don't need to settle and hope for the best. It is good to know the good and the bad. There is plenty of marketing material out there to tout the "features" of this phone, looking at the downside takes your out of that vortex of "promise" and enables you to look at the true value. Is what the phone brings, worth the trials and tribulations of the downside that you won't find in a brochure. Unfortunately, in the case of the backflip, the vast majority of answers so far seems to be "no"

  6. #5
    Android Addict marvin_attdroids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    Well, being one of those "negative people" let me explain "why"

    Start with the hardware (which is not caused by at&t)

    IN my opinion only, the "backflip" design is stupid. It is one of those things that works better on paper than in practice. Can't wait to see all the complaints about items (lint, crumbs, whatever) jamming keys and people wondering "why"
    Keyboard is sealed no place for stuff to get in. Has this been a problem on any bar type phone with an exposed keyboard?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    OK, so the keyboard is (presumably) recesses slightly so that you don't accidently hit keys when it is in your pocket, or "standing" in what looks like the Droid "Dock Mode" (sans the dock of course), that "lip" that they need to put around there to make that happen is going to annoy (at least some) people.
    The lip may annoy some people, I have not found it to be a problem. Why is it a bad thing to have the 'dock mode' or desktop mode without having to buy additional hardware?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    Add to that the odd shape and layout for the keys, you have something that eventually you could get used to... but is there anything on this phone that is worth learning to adjust for?
    One of the problems in the cell phone industry is that there is no standard layout for keyboards. This is because of space and design limitations. I have found the Backflip keyboard to be good, I wouldn't rate it great.

    The phone does not have an odd shape. Closed it looks like almost any touch screen phone or slider phone. Open it looks like a slider. The only thing odd about the phone is how it opens and the location of the keyboard when closed. This oddness allowed for a much larger keyboard than possible if some of the area had to be used for slides and makes it possible for the phone itself to be smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    The back swiping touch area is a gimmick at this point, being a solution in search of a problem. It may have potential somewhere on the right device, but here is it is just something to give it a differentiation factor without really bringing any value proposition to the table.
    You either love or hate the backtrack. I love it, if you don't like it it can be disabled.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    As if that isn't enough, THEN we go to the at&t buggering of this phone.
    All AT&T phones have the AT&T bloat. If you get a WinMO phone you also have Windows bloat. If you get an iPhone you have Apple bloat (and you MUST install their program to your home computer, with limited choices of OS to do so on). With the Backflip you get MotoBlur bloat, but I turned that off with no problem. Of course if you use Facebook, Twitter, etc. MotoBlur is a feature, not bloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    yes you can change your "Homepage", but you can't change the default search box (according to reports). That hampers not only your search of the Net, but the search of data (contacts, docs, etc) ON THE PHONE.
    My search on the net isn't hampered in any way, I've got a shortcut to Google on my home screen and never see Google.

    Searching for a contact is simpler on this phone than any I have ever owned. If you are on the home screen or in the contacts you just start typing, either on the hardware keyboard or the virtual keyboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    Locking out anything that isn't in the Market? Why? So they can ensure nobody can possibly root this phone and actually possibly make it useful? Or remove their crapware?
    Locking out non-market apps is not the same as preventing rooting. If consumers wouldn't buy a phone that can only install from open source the iPhone would have failed. Coming from a phone that was truly locked down, for me the Android Market is a whole new world. And there are ways to install non-market apps.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    The simple fact is, there are a lot of good phones out there these days and there is no reason anybody should get stuck with a lemon like this... so yes, it is compared to other items out there, and flaws are shown for what they are... even the iPhone has taken hits right from the get go about tethering, and MMS (finally fixed), and other issues.

    This isn't the dark ages, and you don't need to settle and hope for the best. It is good to know the good and the bad. There is plenty of marketing material out there to tout the "features" of this phone, looking at the downside takes your out of that vortex of "promise" and enables you to look at the true value. Is what the phone brings, worth the trials and tribulations of the downside that you won't find in a brochure. Unfortunately, in the case of the backflip, the vast majority of answers so far seems to be "no"
    Each person should use the phone that suits them. I like the Backflip. No one phone makes everyone happy. I have never owned a phone that did not have flaws or that had every feature that I wanted.

  7. #6
    Junior Member JayMonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marvin View Post
    Keyboard is sealed no place for stuff to get in. Has this been a problem on any bar type phone with an exposed keyboard?
    Sure, it has been a problem on plenty of phones, how critical a problem it is depends on how well you take care of your phone, etc. Can problems be avoided... of course, just like scratched screens on large screen touch phones.

    Quote Originally Posted by marvin View Post
    The lip may annoy some people, I have not found it to be a problem. Why is it a bad thing to have the 'dock mode' or desktop mode without having to buy additional hardware?
    This is the same as with the Droid. Some find the offset keyboard a problem... others (myself included) do not... but doesn't mean that it isn't a potential problem. It is truely a YMMV situation. BTW, I did not say that not having a dock was bad, I was simply trying to describe what phone position I was talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by marvin View Post
    One of the problems in the cell phone industry is that there is no standard layout for keyboards. This is because of space and design limitations. I have found the Backflip keyboard to be good, I wouldn't rate it great.

    The phone does not have an odd shape. Closed it looks like almost any touch screen phone or slider phone. Open it looks like a slider. The only thing odd about the phone is how it opens and the location of the keyboard when closed. This oddness allowed for a much larger keyboard than possible if some of the area had to be used for slides and makes it possible for the phone itself to be smaller.
    You are right that there is no "standard" but there are keyboards that are generally considered good (Motorola Q9m was one, Most Blackberry phones fit here as well), and others that are not. I did not mean to say the "PHONE" was odd shaped, I was talking about the keys specifically, both their shape and their layout. The layout, I am not thrilled with on my Droid as well... This seems to be an issue with Motorola, one that virtually all their phones get knocked for during reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by marvin View Post
    All AT&T phones have the AT&T bloat. If you get a WinMO phone you also have Windows bloat. If you get an iPhone you have Apple bloat (and you MUST install their program to your home computer, with limited choices of OS to do so on). With the Backflip you get MotoBlur bloat, but I turned that off with no problem. Of course if you use Facebook, Twitter, etc. MotoBlur is a feature, not bloat.
    There is a difference between what comes with the phone (i.e. Motorblur) and adding crap onto the phone like at&t did to the backflip. at&t didn't add any to the iPhone. It didn't on the at&t tilt I was issued a few years back by my company... but apparently this one they felt compelled to put all this excess baggage on to it.


    Look, I am not trying to argue, no do I fault anybody for owning a phone they like. One of the things I like about Android, is that there are different options for different people (something Apple will never get). I simply answered the question that was posed... "why are people negative?" And I tried to be more specific than "it just sucks" because that doesn't help anybody, and doesn't say anything.

    Whether the Blackflip is a success or a failure overall doesn't mean squat... as long as you are happy with your purchase... But from a general discussion point of view, I will stick to my guns and say that in my opinion this is a poor device overall, and that I wouldn't purchase it. That's all.

  8. #7
    Senior Member tae_254's Avatar
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    All this just goes back to personal preference. No one will ever be right trying to describe the standards the phone should be. Its suits some and for others it doesn't.

  9. #8
    Junior Member kankan's Avatar
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    yeah, I would agree there is no reason to hate...with smart phones there is such a variety of users/uses that I doubt anyone will find one phone best for all.

    Personally I love the phone, I feel I got almost all the goodies of an Iphone but also with a physical keyboard and the backtrack (I like like the back track more than I thought I would) and I am happy its an Android phone as it will have good apps like Iphone. Also, the phone seems like a very good value compared some pricier ones.

    People complain about motoblur and yahoo widget...puhleeze.., I set google as my home page on the browser and moved around the widgets, got rid of ones I didn't want to see, brought some others onto home page and now it is my phone...

    I have had Iphone people, blackberry/storm people, palm pre people use the phone and say the like it and even Iphone people find some stuff better than their phone...people like the big keyboard, don't initially care about backtrack...but I'm telling you, really diggin on backtrack after a few days of use as I think others would if they got used to using it...

  10. #9
    Senior Member NaplesBill's Avatar
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    I will start by saying, if you are going to complain about the hardware, maybe you should try using the phone first.

    If you complain about the AT&T bloat, join the club. Unfortunately, this is pretty much standard by all carriers for most of their devices. I have a blackberry for work on the Verizon network. There are stupid Verizon apps that automatically get push OTA. This is the most annoying crap to me. You can hide the icons but if you uninstall, they get pushed back to the phone.

    After almost a week with the Backflip, I am 95% satisfied. Honestly, the design is much better in life than it was on paper. I was very skeptical and I bought one anyway. I figure I can just return it. I don't think I'll be returning it though. I actually love the keyboard because the keys are sized very well for fingertip use. This makes two thumb typing very accurate (at least in my case).

    The Yahoo and untrusted sources are very minor for me. I can sideload via ADB and I really don't use the search widget. I have the browser set to google as the home page and all the Google apps still work just fine on this device.

    My only major complaint so far has been battery life. I have found that leaving wifi off helps tremendously. I am almost always in a good 3g area so I just turn it on if I need it. I am fairly sure this is a software issue where something is causing battery drain. I hope they fix this in the update.

    This device has so much potential it's amazing.

  11. #10
    Senior Member TechN9ne1730's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayMonster View Post
    Sure, it has been a problem on plenty of phones, how critical a problem it is depends on how well you take care of your phone, etc. Can problems be avoided... of course, just like scratched screens on large screen touch phones.
    Your missing the point. I wont say its impossible to screw up the keyboard, but there is no gaps for dust or crumbs to fall in.

    This is the same as with the Droid. Some find the offset keyboard a problem... others (myself included) do not... but doesn't mean that it isn't a potential problem. It is truely a YMMV situation. BTW, I did not say that not having a dock was bad, I was simply trying to describe what phone position I was talking about.
    In regards to the lip, I really cant see how this would be a problem unless you have some really sensitive touch. Have you looked at the lip first hand? Its a matter of 2 millimeters or so.

    You are right that there is no "standard" but there are keyboards that are generally considered good (Motorola Q9m was one, Most Blackberry phones fit here as well), and others that are not. I did not mean to say the "PHONE" was odd shaped, I was talking about the keys specifically, both their shape and their layout. The layout, I am not thrilled with on my Droid as well... This seems to be an issue with Motorola, one that virtually all their phones get knocked for during reviews.
    You cant even feel the shape of they keys, and the ones that arent square, are still practically square. Nor do I really see how layouts an issue. You have the typical alphabet qwerty keys in there respective location. Backspace is in the top right corner, similar to a keyboard.Shift/Up is right by the Z as on a keyboard, and I could go on. So I dont see whats so bad about it?

    There is a difference between what comes with the phone (i.e. Motorblur) and adding crap onto the phone like at&t did to the backflip. at&t didn't add any to the iPhone. It didn't on the at&t tilt I was issued a few years back by my company... but apparently this one they felt compelled to put all this excess baggage on to it.
    Every phone I can ever remember, aside form maybe some of the original pre-color screen nokia phones.


    Look, I am not trying to argue, no do I fault anybody for owning a phone they like. One of the things I like about Android, is that there are different options for different people (something Apple will never get). I simply answered the question that was posed... "why are people negative?" And I tried to be more specific than "it just sucks" because that doesn't help anybody, and doesn't say anything.
    I am not trying to argue, so much as understand how these can be such a problem? No phone is perfect.

    Whether the Blackflip is a success or a failure overall doesn't mean squat... as long as you are happy with your purchase... But from a general discussion point of view, I will stick to my guns and say that in my opinion this is a poor device overall, and that I wouldn't purchase it. That's all.
    Ill be happy to admit the phones not perfect but aside from the fact that that google has blocked certain markets, I cant see the validness of your claims. If you have indeed got your hands on the phone, and feel there problems, so be it. I just cant understand how these things can really cause you to hate the device so much.

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