Is Apps2SD really the future?

This is a discussion on Is Apps2SD really the future? within the Nexus One forums, part of the Google Phones category; Feel free to discuss guys. I am no expert. My Android time is from last September when I first bought my Hero. Now using a ...

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Thread: Is Apps2SD really the future?

  1. #1
    Member schizophrenia's Avatar
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    Is Apps2SD really the future?

    Feel free to discuss guys.

    I am no expert. My Android time is from last September when I first bought my Hero. Now using a N1 for almost 2 months.

    From my Hero time, everyone talked about Apps2SD, because of the limited size of ROM and I was not able to install a lot of apps, not to mention those large sizes games. Well, then again back then Hero was not really capable of a lot of games due to its low end hardwares (I did not root it whatsoever).

    After the 2.1 upgrade of Hero, I finally got a chance to try a whole lot more apps because a lot of them have a min requirement of 1.6 or above. Once I started having all these apps, I started installing a lot of stuff. Oh well, the low end hardware turned me off so I turned to a N1.

    With N1 performance, I am able to do a whole lot more including apps and games. With its performance, I am able to try this and that but then the ROM became full so fast even after the official Apps2SD. Some games are like 15Mb 20Mb and they are still nearly 10Mb after Apps2SD. Likewise to some apps such as Google Earth (over 20Mb), Flash 10 (over 10Mb), Google Map (almost 10Mb), Docs to Go (8Mb), etc and they are not even Apps2SD enabled. The number of apps I installed are so limited.

    So I started thinking if Apps2SD is really the future? Many would argue that because 2.2 just rolled out not for too long so lots of app developers have not yet made their apps Apps2SD enabled. But look at most of the new devices coming up, they are 2.1 (upgradable to 2.2) or 2.2 pre-installed with like 8Gb ROM. To name just a few, they are Galaxy S, Moto Milestone 2, etc (I am from Asia). When they become popular, why would developers want to make apps Apps2SD enabled? Plus some widgets wont run on SD anyway.

    What do you think?

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  3. #2
    Super Moderator AndroidIsTheTruth's Avatar
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    It's not that App2SD is the future, Mfr are just now putting more memory in the phones and devices. Galaxy S I believe is 8 or 16 and other the higher end phones are starting get these upgrade in memory. Market place wasn't as developed then as it is now.
    Androidfied.

  4. #3
    Senior Member FlyingsCool's Avatar
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    Hmm,
    It's my understanding that this extra ram does not matter for application space.

    Whether you have 512 MB or 8 GB of memory, you're still limited to 512 MB of memory for your applications. Or 256 MB or whatever it is. The other memory acts like SD Card memory for data.

    Kind of like the old DOS days, where you could have 1 MB of memory, but DOS was still stuck in 640K.

    Am I correct about this?

    If not, why did HTC limit this phone with so little memory???
    That's my biggest complaint, that it's application memory space is so limited.

    If so, then, yes, Apps2SD is the future until Android allows a larger application space size.

  5. #4
    Junior Member Beer Goggles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    Hmm,
    It's my understanding that this extra ram does not matter for application space.

    Whether you have 512 MB or 8 GB of memory, you're still limited to 512 MB of memory for your applications. Or 256 MB or whatever it is. The other memory acts like SD Card memory for data.

    Kind of like the old DOS days, where you could have 1 MB of memory, but DOS was still stuck in 640K.

    Am I correct about this?

    If not, why did HTC limit this phone with so little memory???
    That's my biggest complaint, that it's application memory space is so limited.

    If so, then, yes, Apps2SD is the future until Android allows a larger application space size.
    You (and many others) are confusing FLASH and RAM. FLASH is there your programs are STORED, RAM is where your program RUN.

    FLASH memory is permanent in the sense that it does not need battery to maintain its data. RAM is temporary, transient memory where programs run.

    Please read these:
    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory"]Flash memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Random-access memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #5
    Super Moderator AndroidIsTheTruth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    Hmm,
    It's my understanding that this extra ram does not matter for application space.

    Whether you have 512 MB or 8 GB of memory, you're still limited to 512 MB of memory for your applications. Or 256 MB or whatever it is. The other memory acts like SD Card memory for data.

    Kind of like the old DOS days, where you could have 1 MB of memory, but DOS was still stuck in 640K.

    Am I correct about this?

    If not, why did HTC limit this phone with so little memory???
    That's my biggest complaint, that it's application memory space is so limited.

    If so, then, yes, Apps2SD is the future until Android allows a larger application space size.

    Well I look at it like this. I think HTC was stiuck in the old days of only having so much internal memory and expecting the user to buy SD card for extended memory. When you look at alot of the older phone, particularly Nokia, you'd be lucky to get a phone that had 256MB internal memory.

    The problem in todays phone is apps. As apps now are the new reasons why people buy phones, memory needs to be larger. If you remember you'd never would get a memory card with your phone. Now they supply it. I think HTC just realize as do other companies even Nokia, that internal HD needs to be bigger. Even though the OS only allocates a certain amount of memory for apps (RAM I believe?) as it grow so will that the requirement for that internal memory. Which in the long run the Nexus come an end if say the next couple of OS upgrade required 1gb to be allocated for memory.
    Androidfied.

  7. #6
    Senior Member FlyingsCool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer Goggles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    Hmm,
    It's my understanding that this extra ram does not matter for application space.

    Whether you have 512 MB or 8 GB of memory, you're still limited to 512 MB of memory for your applications. Or 256 MB or whatever it is. The other memory acts like SD Card memory for data.

    Kind of like the old DOS days, where you could have 1 MB of memory, but DOS was still stuck in 640K.

    Am I correct about this?

    If not, why did HTC limit this phone with so little memory???
    That's my biggest complaint, that it's application memory space is so limited.

    If so, then, yes, Apps2SD is the future until Android allows a larger application space size.
    You (and many others) are confusing FLASH and RAM. FLASH is there your programs are STORED, RAM is where your program RUN.

    FLASH memory is permanent in the sense that it does not need battery to maintain its data. RAM is temporary, transient memory where programs run.

    Please read these:
    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory"]Flash memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Random-access memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Whether or not I am confusing Flash memory and RAM, you haven't answered the question on the limit of memory available to store and use applications. Is there a limit? Or can an Incredible use 8GB worth of applications while we are stuck with 512 MB of space to store and use applications?

  8. #7
    Super Moderator AndroidIsTheTruth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer Goggles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    Hmm,
    It's my understanding that this extra ram does not matter for application space.

    Whether you have 512 MB or 8 GB of memory, you're still limited to 512 MB of memory for your applications. Or 256 MB or whatever it is. The other memory acts like SD Card memory for data.

    Kind of like the old DOS days, where you could have 1 MB of memory, but DOS was still stuck in 640K.

    Am I correct about this?

    If not, why did HTC limit this phone with so little memory???
    That's my biggest complaint, that it's application memory space is so limited.

    If so, then, yes, Apps2SD is the future until Android allows a larger application space size.
    You (and many others) are confusing FLASH and RAM. FLASH is there your programs are STORED, RAM is where your program RUN.

    FLASH memory is permanent in the sense that it does not need battery to maintain its data. RAM is temporary, transient memory where programs run.

    Please read these:
    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory"]Flash memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Random-access memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Whether or not I am confusing Flash memory and RAM, you haven't answered the question on the limit of memory available to store and use applications. Is there a limit? Or can an Incredible use 8GB worth of applications while we are stuck with 512 MB of space to store and use applications?
    You can store as much apps with a SD card if the app is capable of storing on the card. The problem is only so much memory is moved over to the card. There are still certain data that is stored on the internal memory, but the apps2sd allows some of the non essential data be moved to the card. So even though you can store alot of apps to the SD, it will still eat up internal storage memory. i.e you have a 2.3 mb app. 1.2 of it may only be moved and the remaining will still be stored on the internal.

    Incredible will be able to holds loads more of apps than the Nexus.
    Androidfied.

  9. #8
    Junior Member Beer Goggles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    Whether or not I am confusing Flash memory and RAM, you haven't answered the question on the limit of memory available to store and use applications. Is there a limit? Or can an Incredible use 8GB worth of applications while we are stuck with 512 MB of space to store and use applications?
    Depends on the phone design. You'll have to check the manufacturers specs for that kind of information.

  10. #9
    Senior Member FlyingsCool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndroidIsTheTruth View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingsCool View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer Goggles View Post

    You (and many others) are confusing FLASH and RAM. FLASH is there your programs are STORED, RAM is where your program RUN.

    FLASH memory is permanent in the sense that it does not need battery to maintain its data. RAM is temporary, transient memory where programs run.

    Please read these:
    Flash memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Random-access memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Whether or not I am confusing Flash memory and RAM, you haven't answered the question on the limit of memory available to store and use applications. Is there a limit? Or can an Incredible use 8GB worth of applications while we are stuck with 512 MB of space to store and use applications?
    You can store as much apps with a SD card if the app is capable of storing on the card. The problem is only so much memory is moved over to the card. There are still certain data that is stored on the internal memory, but the apps2sd allows some of the non essential data be moved to the card. So even though you can store alot of apps to the SD, it will still eat up internal storage memory. i.e you have a 2.3 mb app. 1.2 of it may only be moved and the remaining will still be stored on the internal.

    Incredible will be able to holds loads more of apps than the Nexus.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you still don't quite understand my question.

    1. I can get a 32 GB SD Card for my Nexus. Storage space is not the question here.

    The question is, how much space does Android allow for application space?

    To ease the understanding of my question, let's assume Apps2SD does not exist. Is the full 8GB of memory on the Incredible available to run applications, i.e. is it RAM? Or is it Flash memory, and the Incredible is still stuck with the same amount of RAM that the N1 has? My understanding is that it is hardwired Flash memory (like another SD Card), and it is still stuck with the same amount of RAM (application space) that the N1 has. And it is Android that is limiting the amount of available RAM for running applications (and storing assuming Apps2SD does not exist).

    If the Incredible has 8 GB for its application space, I'll be pissed. An empty N1 has about 100 MB available for applications I think, and I'm always having to fight to make space for all the applications I'd like to load. Yes, I know I can root to make a little more space, but I'm not ready for that yet.

  11. #10
    Junior Member Beer Goggles's Avatar
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    Like I said, you have to check each devices specifications.

    Some of the FLASH memory is going to be used by the OS and the "standard" applications that the device has built-in. So no, you will not get to use the whole thing for your applications.

    Regarding running applications from the external card (Apps2SD, as some like to call it); this should give everyone all the space that they need.

    I think that many people are just addicted to putting more applications on the phone. More.....More....More.....

    P.S. It looks like the Incredible has 8G + 512M of FLASH, so you might, indeed, get the whole 8G for apps.

    Pissed? LOL, go to Verizon and get an Incredible if that's what you want!

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